AIO coolers have a similar installation difficulty level to air coolers. They are "closed loop" (with some notable exceptions). This means you take them out of the box and install them just like an air cooler. Example: Corsair install video.
That being said, air coolers perform as good/better than water coolers depending upon a lot of factors. By perform, I mean in many dimensions such as cost, noise to cooling, and max cooling. 120mm AIO coolers like the MasterLiquid Lite 120 are made for very small form factor cases. In these cases, an air cooler that performs as good/better won't fit due to height restrictions.
TL;DR: You are correct, a similarly priced air cooler is orders of magnitude better than a MasterLiquid Lite 120.
Is everyone abandoning AMD CPU based builds? I mean, I agree in raw FPS Intel has the edge on AMD, but you can get 2nd gen 8 core SMT processors so dang cheap now....
To the OP. This build seems to target 1440p resolution.
Honestly with a 1080p monitor you are fine with an Nvidia 1160 or even rx 580/590. I think the 1160 ensures optimal frame rates though. You can lower your budget considerably if that is your target.
Number one consideration for a gaming machine is definitely the GPU. Then again, there are some ridiculous pairings. Like a 2080 with 720p resolution is beyond ridiculous right?
So, once you work out your resolution, then the computer basically builds itself. If you are happy with 1080p, then a NVidia 1160 or AMD RX 580/590 is more than sufficient for now. A 2070 or Vega 56 would be overkill for 1080p. That class of GPU is suited for 1440P. 2080 would be a step up from that, slight overkill for 1440, but barely sufficient for 4k (you still have to turn down graphics settings). Even a 2080 ti struggles at 4K.
In my oh so humble opinion, 1440P should be your target in your budget. Since that is the case, the GPU that makes the most sense is a 2070. (The new RX Navi GPU's from AMD MIGHT be a good fit too, but you can't buy them yet, and they haven't been reviewed). If you have room in your budget, sure, stretch up to a 2080 to ensure you can select max settings.
The CPU matters a little less at 1440P. It CAN make a difference, but most reasonable CPU's with 6+ cores are going to preform very well paired with a 2080 or 2070.
That being said, this build could very well work for you, and it might even perform better over time. (a source)
PCPartPicker Part List
Note: My prices never include Mail-In-Rebates unless specifically requested.
Basically with the savings switching to an AMD platform, you can get the 2080 and a new monitor only $100 out of budget. Hope this helps!
AMD revealed several new products (both CPU's and GPU's) in the past week or so. These will not be available till next month though. So you may consider waiting until they come out. At the very least it should compress the market price-wise so your $1800 will buy a little more. The general consensus is to just pull the trigger when you are ready to buy, there will always be something new coming out. So either path is valid.
Maybe speed isn't as big a concern for you. In that case you can save a ton of money switching to AMD:
Could you tell the difference between these two browsing the internet and using MS office...no. However, that particular Ryzen chip has more processing cores, and so it doesn't have any graphics onboard. This means the maximum number of monitors supported by the system would be 4 without adding another GPU. (The motherboard has spots to plug in monitors, but they will not function because this chip has no graphics cores, you would need an APU like the AMD - Ryzen 5 2400G. I think this matters not one bit, so I would keep the Ryzen 5 myself).
I think speed is paramount as every ms counts. Toward that end I selected one of the fastest CPU's out there. I put it all in a small MicroATX form factor. The GPU supports up to 4 monitors. The motherboard supports up to 3. So this single GPU configuration can support 7 monitors.
InWin has played around with wooden pieces on cases before. These are always low production volume items at an extreme cost.
I don't know why they have such trouble producing something like this in volume, but it has often been said that it will "never" happen.
Hey, if you are the guy that figures it out, could be a gold mine!
Beautiful case and build BTW. You might consider keeping the same case, and using some sort of stand-off to get the window away from the GPU. Make it look like it is on purpose like several Thermaltake cases with similar gaps.
Man, you ain't kidding there!!!!
I would think complaints like this would be better directed to PCPP, not to an enthusiast that spent a ton of time, effort, and likely blood if my build experiences are anything to go by. So that is why negative Nancy's like yourself should hold your tongue and move on. Opinions are like ********, everyone has one. Doesn't mean you should make a stink!
Beautiful build! Wesley will enjoy it, I am sure. It is so neat that it is a centerpiece that he can show off! Even non-gamers will think it looks cool as ****!
If you are looking to up the ante even beyond the stratospheric heights you have already obtained, they make m.2 to pcie adapters. They generally only work right if your motherboard supports biforcation of the pcie slot(s). Asus discontinued theirs and the other 4xm.2 cards aren't well reviewed on Newegg, but maybe one of the 2xm.2 cards would be fun to play with (and get you away from the vertical mount). I think your chip will support up to 8xm.2 in raid 0 hahahhahhhah. Deb8ur did a video on it about a year ago.
****, I missed the Samsung dive. TY.
The motherboard has a horizontal m.2 port under the big RGB heat spreader in the lower right corner. From their website: "ROG Strix X399-E Gaming motherboards are equipped with an M.2 heatsink integrated into the PCH heatsink. With a huge cooling surface, the M.2 heatsink perfectly chills an inserted M.2 SSD — for consistent performance and reliability. Featuring a stylish angular design, the M.2 heatsink adds a beautiful touch to the build, while the T-sensor detects temperatures in the vital M.2 area for instant monitoring."
The vertical mount was probably just an afterthought. I don't really like that style either, seems like they will snap right off. Just remove the 3 screws hold that heatsink down and you will be able to insert the m.2 drive.
I would not do a soundcard myself. The motherboard has built-in audio output which is suffient for most people. Those that are "audiophiles" would be better served with something like this: https://www.jdslabs.com/products/48/objective2-odac-combo-revb/
Keep in mind a lot of the truly small mini it cases like the node 202 require smaller than normal power supplies. These are called sfx size and they are not cheap generally speaking. The value options start near $45usd...
That was what made me chose a tiny case that actually supports atx PSU instead. I still spent like $80 on a seasonic focus gold because it is only 140mm long and fully modular.
I would buy any of these depending upon needs: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/power-supply/#X=100,57370&m=169,11,14,71,63,441&e=6,5,4&p=1&sort=price&page=1
It's all about balance. Having seen a crappy psu take an entire system out I always advise to err on the side of spending more.
I generally only recommend those power supplies that have been physically de-constructed and raked across the coals by the likes of http://www.jonnyguru.com.
So what is the difference in power supplies of a different caliber? Capacitors used, rectifiers and other electronic means of filtering power from the wall. The higher rated systems (rated by a third party organization known as 80 plus) generally have better components. These better components extend the life of the PSU and better protect your equipment. In the end every power supply should be made to fail. If some bad stuff comes out of the wall better to smoke your $80 PSU then your $300 CPU, and $300 GPU.
All that being said, it doesn't make sense to spend $150+ of your budget on a 800w platinum power supply. So in that case your neighbor was correct. Of, however, you are building a $3000 machine, why WOULDN'T you spend more to better protect it?
Corsair generally sells good power supplies. They don't actually make them though. There are actually only a few companies that actually manufacture psu's. They make them for companies like Corsair and others.
Sorry it isn't a simple answer. Here is my simple answer. Being an experienced builder, I anticipate spending around $80-$100 on a PSU no matter the build. I prefer fully modular platforms from evga, Silverstone and Corsair. I prefer gold certified power supplies to silver or bronze. Are there a ton of other power supplies that are just as good and $10 cheaper? Maybe, depends upon sales and such. It is too deep a field to keep track of so I don't even try. Using my method I take the easy route and I am guaranteed a good, solid power unit.
m.2 is just an interface. It comes in two versions. Plain jane SATA and fast PCIe. The PCIe is know as NVMe M.2. All that being said, plain SATA is fine for speeds.
If you like the cube style cases I really like what the Thermaltake core V1 looks like. It is also super affordable so that is nice. You can add some 80mm exhaust fans if you like.
A more mainstream and larger option is the NZXT H200: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/ZZqhP6/nzxt-h200-blackblue-mini-itx-tower-case-ca-h200b-bl
It comes in a ton of color options.
A pretty unique case is the BitFenix Portal: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/mGzZxr/bitfenix-portal-blackwindowed-mini-itx-tower-case-bfc-pot-150-kkwkk-rp
It is nice looking, but really really large for mini-itx. The entire frame the internals mounts to slides out the rear.
My favorites have always been the super-thin HTPC style like:
Node 202: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/GsZ2FT/fractal-design-case-fdcanode202bk
Silverstone ML09B: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/cCdFf7/silverstone-ml09b-htpc-case-ml09b
There are several Silverstone variants that can even take full size (ATX) power supplies (though they recommend a shorter length of 140mm instead of the standard 150mm or long 160mm). Example: (outdated now) https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/MqmxFT/silverstone-case-sstrvz01be or new model: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product/RgVBD3/silverstone-rvz03b-mini-itx-desktop-case-rvz03b
They both seem to be out of stock in Canada though.
Hope this helps!
Keeping as close to yours as possible.
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant
So consider something like this, and I will explain all the pieces:
Hope this helps to at least get you started. Check out this comparison on Adobe: https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Photoshop-CC-2018-CPU-Performance-AMD-Ryzen-2-vs-Intel-8th-Gen-1136/#BenchmarkResults
Why Raid 1?
It isn't very safe, and it is no faster than a single drive? You could probably get just as much utility out of a 5TB USB drive that backs up a 1TB SSD if you are going for data security, and 2 x 512GB SSD in RAID 0 will give you an unsafe but fast to write drive if you are looking for fast scratch space.
wait...1100-2200? ****, I missed that mark by a long shot.
Extra room in your budget could be used on Aftermarket cooler Like an AIO or on RGB bling bling RAM.
Holy mother of god that is small!!! Awesome awesome build! You did a great job!
Some things to consider. The SSD you selected is m.2, but it still uses sata lanes. It will be no faster than any other sata drive like the standard 2.5 inch models. The benefit of sata m.2 is it plugs directly into the motherboard similar to RAM. This, in turn, menas you won't have to run any sata data cambles to the motherboard, and no sata power cable from your power supply. Up to you if that is worth $30.
The monitor you selected is 144hz, and it supports freesync for sure. I don't know if gsync will work with it or not. That would take research. I assume not. (Nvidia announced at CES 2019 they will start to support freesync for some monitors, I don't know if that includes this model or not).
The headset seems a little expensive to me. I recently got the Corsair void pro wireless and it was only like $75. I prefer wireless headsets because cords are the bane of my existence.
I would say the 2060 is considerably better than any of the GPU's previously considered. It should even allow for 1440p performance! (Gamersnexus.net did some benchmarks, and they were very good). They have a final thought on the matter which is basically in the $350 price category go with the 2060 if you just want it to work, and the RX Vega 56 if you are willing to/enjoy messing around with the voltages and such.
I think you are pretty close!
You shouldn't be bottlenecked by the CPU in that scenario. Have you overclocked the CPU?
You can spend it all in one shot and get a Vega 56 for about $340 instead of the RX 580.
Or you can spread it around a little bit and do something like this:
Something like that.
Hell. Let's see what others post. Maybe dropping the CPU down to a R7 1600 and getting a little smaller SSD would enable you to get into a 2070. I don't think the math works, but maybe...
So I went budget beating basic, and then you will have upgrade options.
Whew...hope that helps! Enjoy your build. No matter what it is going to be awesome!
Nope, I think you are still good to go. Only upgrade you can/should consider is GPU. The only reason why I would consider that is if you want to explore 1440p gaming.
Really a 2070 would be fine for 1440p. You can also go with a vega 56 and a cheaper but still good freesync monitor. Plus NVidia is starting to support some freesync monitors.
Your public saved builds are:
For your application, would it be better if the CPU ran faster, or had more cores? If you want faster single core performance, nothing beats intel (for now). I would think machine learning workloads would favor more cores. In that case I would do something from team red like the following:
Keep in mind, this CPU is a little older, so you can always spring for a more modern WX series Threadripper instead. 16 cores processing 32 threads is nothing short of a miracle at this price point though.
The SSD doesn't matter all that much, I just selected a large, cheap one. For the price of a 512GB Samsung 970 pro you can get a cheaper 2TB SSD if you want. I threw in a 4TB drive as well. Really the drives are the least exciting/important part of the build, and aside from the boot drive you can add them at will. Like TheShadowGuy I went with an outsized power supply to make sure you had enough PCIE connections. 2070's have an 8 pin connector and this PSU has Plenty of those.
The case is well reviewed and ventillated. I added some 140mm Corsair static pressure fans for you to mount to the front.
This "Fryzen" cooler that is very good. All the TR4 water coolers have issues for now. So we will need to wait for a reasonable one to be released. I would keep it on air anyway, and this cooler will work even up to the monster 32 core 64 thread WX chip.
Building should be painless in the NZXT case because it has plenty of room to route cables, and you hide them all in a messy clump behind the PSU shroud anyway.
Let me know if you have any questions! Happy building!
For smaller form factor I went with this InWin 301 case. This is because any smaller and components start getting more expensive. (MiniItx MOBOs, SFF power supplies, SFF coolers that are worth a damn, cases, etc)
You can easily fit something liek this in your budget, or even the 2700. The stock cooler is actually pretty damn good, but you can always add an aftermarket cooler later.
You want fast RAM. You can get a 3000mhz kit for under $100 if you wanted to save some room in your budget. This case is pretty tight, and really screams for an AIO cooler for your CPU. There is certainly room in your budget for an aftermarket AIO. I would get an RGB one to make the internals pop through the tempered glass. The case comes with no fans so I added a 3 pack of SUPER low budget LED fans. Stick two on the bottom for intake and one on the rear for exhaust.
If you DO want to go smaller, then consider the absolutely tiny Silverstone Rvz01b-e. This version will take your power supply, but there won't be room for your 3.5inch 1TB drive. The case has support for up to 3 2.5inch drives so you can always add some SSD's or 2.5inch hdd's. Like this Laptop HDD
The newest variant of that case is this: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/RgVBD3/silverstone-rvz03b-mini-itx-desktop-case-rvz03b. I don't know what they changed.
It will be enough
Here is one option, though I will say I have seen other options cheaper recently: https://pcpartpicker.com/product/qJ448d/adata-ultimate-su650-960-gb-25-solid-state-drive-asu650ss-960gt-r
No, I mean find a 1tb SSD as close to $70 (which you are spending anyway) as you can get. You can always add a 1, 2, 3, or 4tb HDD as needed for space. Then it is just shutdown, plug in the new drive, and boot back up. Rather than run out of space on your 256gb SSD and have to migrate to a new boot drive.
I recommend getting the cheapest 1tb drive you can find instead of your SSD HDD combo... You can always add drives later, migrating to a new os drive is a pain in the ***.
GPU brand doesn't matter per say. They use identical GPU chips from the manufacturer (AMD in this case). Now, they can either be a reference design, which means the build exactly to AMD specification, or they can be aftermarket or non-reference design. The design can sometimes be optimized for certain applications. (Maybe small form factor, maybe bad airflow, maybe well vented case, or maybe a compromise that masters none of those).
Long answer to a short question I know. Basically the reference design is usually optimized for big OEMs like Dell or HP. These cases usually have bad airflow. Therefore, aftermarket designs take advantage of the fact that custom cases can vent much better, and you can throw more heat into the case. That means they can remove heat faster, which leads to less thermal throttling, but more case heat. As long as you can get the heat out it won't be an issue at all, and you get "free" performance improvement over reference. For cases like we suggest, I usually order by Price and get the cheapest one with a decent heatsink.
The reviews on amazon are basically if it works it is a damn beast. If it doesn't work....good luck with customer service. Their motto seems to be "We're not happy, until you're not happy!!" lolz.
I have used several m.2 SSD's. They come in two variants. PCIe and SATA. This leads to confusion because some m.2 motherboard slots only support one or the other. I would say you won't run into this on any modern board, they learned that lesson.
Anyway, the SATA m.2 slot is the same as using a SATA port on your motherboard. In fact, using it will invariably disable a SATA port on your motherboard. (They usually make this crystal clear in the manual). The good part is, you don't have to run a SATA cable and separate power cable. I did a build in a Silverstone RVZ01B-E, and I went with a SATA m.2 SSD to reduce the number of cable runs I had to do. I only needed a single PCIe power plug for the GPU and the normal 8 pin CPU + 20Pin MOBO connectors. Every bit helps in that small a form factor.
PCIe m.2 SSD's are referred to as NVMe versions. These can be faster than standard SATA, but that obviously depends upon the hardware involved. How much faster? Would you ever notice the difference? I don't know, it probably depends upon workload. Anyway, using one of these can reduce the total number of PCIe lanes available because that is a set number. Not a big deal as most "prosumers" don't use multi-GPU configurations anymore.
If you are giving of your time to help people out, I thought it was important you knew the distinction. If you want to limit searches on PCPP, it is under the "Intervace" filter. NVMe is M.2 (M) and SATA is M.2 (B+M).
Go for 1440p in your budget please :).
The build as speced will be fine I am sure.
Just my observations and $.02. Like I said, if you are committed to the build you have, you will be very very happy I am sure.
They will all perform similarly. Within a couple FPS of each other as long as the cooler is decent. I went with a cheap 3 fan cooler version, it is the same GPU chip though.
The Asus card does have integrated RGB as well.
lol, that's what I was gonna say!!
For 4k you will be "GPU bound". Which means almost all processors > $150 perform about the same. Just FYI.
That means you can get into an AMD system and save a little money with near 0 performance drop. Stash the savings, and buy the next "best NVidia GPU" you can get later, and sell your 2080 ti to help.
This year SHOULD see the release of Navi from AMD. That will not affect you because they are going to be releasing 1080p/1440p monsters rather than anything that will be great at 4k. (This is all rumor and speculation at this point). Only thing I could imagine happening is the price draw down at the middle of the stack sucks down the top. That added to the fact that NVidia should release an RTX 3080 ti or some such at some point, and that will net you SOME performance gain at 4k.
I really like most of Brett_5s's build, but I saw some places I would make changes:
Now it really depends upon what games you are playing if the liquid cooled Vega 64 will perform better or worse than the 2070. They tend to trade blows. At the same price point ($499) I would choose team Red. If there was a difference in price, I would go with the cheaper option. In addition, the liquid cooled version will be quieter than a standard GPU.
No matter what you need a multi-core CPU to handle the streaming part. While speed is important, core count actually matters a little more.
Noise will be important to you if you are streaming with a mic. Don't want a loud system to be overheard. Every component I picked was with that in mind.
Get the highest thread count you can. That will give it legs.
It is certainly possible to go cheaper than this. Cases can be had for $20, you can drop down to the Ryzen 3. You can get a cheaper motherboard by about $12 or so. Might require a bios update to support the Newer ryzen processors, but that is fine because AMD will loan you a single core processor for the task. You can go with a smaller SSD or HDD. Sufficient power supplies would cost around $30. I just happen to think the upgrades are very worth it.
Holy crap, smaller than a node 202? No. Not for gaming/streaming/overclocking. Hell, I wouldn't overclock in a node 202 , there just isn't enough airflow in those tiny cases.
Maybe a laptop would be a better fit? Then you won't have to lug around a keyboard, mouse, and monitor on the airplane, you can bet that won't fit in the overhead bin :)