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Views on the Athlon 860K

dragoon20005

64 months ago

I do know the Athlon 860K is based on the A10-7850k with the iGPU section disabled

while the previous 760K will work fine with a R9 270X or R9 280 or GTX760

will there be any issues if I were to pair this CPU with the GTX970 or GTX980?

of course the CPU will be push to at least 4.5GHz and above with decent cooling in a full ATX case

everything is in the planning stage and nothing has been bought

I may even go for water cooling to push the CPU close to the 5GHz mark

lets keep this discussion civil :)

Thanks Regards Dragoon20005

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Type Item Price
CPU AMD Athlon X4 860K 3.7GHz Quad-Core Processor $84.00 @ NCIX US
CPU Cooler Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler $19.99 @ Newegg
Motherboard Asus CROSSBLADE RANGER ATX FM2+ Motherboard $154.99 @ Amazon
Memory Team Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory $70.99 @ Newegg
Storage Sandisk Ultra II 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive $78.23 @ Amazon
Storage Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive $54.98 @ OutletPC
Video Card MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card $349.99 @ NCIX US
Case Cooler Master N600 Windowed ATX Mid Tower Case $59.99 @ Newegg
Power Supply EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply $49.99 @ Newegg
Total
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available $923.15
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-29 06:55 EDT-0400

Comments

  • 64 months ago
  • 2 points

A lot of people on here are saying there will be a bottleneck with these cards, when I don't think they'd say that if you asked them whether or not there'd be a bottleneck with the FX-4300 and/or FX-6300, or even an i3.

This is funny, because the Athlon X4 860K is not very different from the FX-4300 at all. Yes, the FX-4300 has more cache, and yes, it can probably overclock better than the 860k - however, it can't use PCI-E 3.0 and has an older architecture. The FX-6300 adds another dual core module, but suffers by having substantially lower single-threaded performance due to lower clock speeds and an older architecture. Whether it outperforms the Athlon will depend totally on the overclocking capability of the individual chip in question, and the threading capability of the individual software titles it tries to run.

Similarly, if you compare the Athlon 860K to your standard i3, you're looking at very similar chips. Depending on the i3, the cache might be a little different one way or the other, but otherwise you're looking at two chips that essentially are dual cores with hyperthreading; the Athlon has two modules with two cores each; if you have to use all 4 cores, it's going to suffer a little bit as its cores share resources. Similarly, but to a somewhat greater degree, an i3 will suffer if it uses hyperthreading to run a program. The i3 makes up for this greater deficiency by having faster single-threaded performance at stock configuration (and actually, will have a single-threaded performance that is probably moderately hard to impossible for the 860k to beat, even OC'd - depending on the i3 in question).

So if people will say the Athlon would bottleneck these cards, but they wouldn't say the FX-4300, FX-6300, or an i3 would bottleneck these cards, What does that tell you? That they have no idea what they are talking about.

The truth is that yes, under the right circumstances, an FX-4300, FX-6300, or almost any i3 will bottleneck the 970, 980, 270X, and 280. But what does that really mean? Under the right circumstances, a six core i7 will bottleneck its own igpu! Is that going to happen often? Not at all.

So how often is the Athlon really going to be a bottleneck to these cards? If you try to run a game that needs a more powerful CPU, it will, but actually, very few games ask for a more powerful CPU than the 860K - witness the success of the little dual-core G3258 and the Athlon 5350 as budget gamers: both cheap chips that overcome difficulties by excelling at single or multithreaded operation. The Athlon is, in some ways, vastly more powerful than either of those chips - it should be, since it costs 20-30 more. Furthermore, by the time it becomes a bottleneck in 90+% of games, you will already be running above 60fps - so the bottleneck will not really be a concern. The same goes for the FX-4300, FX-6300, and i3 series - which is why these tend to get recommended for budget gaming builds. They bring a lot of horsepower for a smaller price, and where they fall short, it doesn't really matter to most of us.

With that said, there is one final thing to consider - the AMD cards vs. the Nvidia cards. If you are worried about bottlenecks, I would suggest getting an AMD card. The reason for this is not only that the Nvidia cards are extremely powerful, but also because of Mantle. When games do support Mantle, you can use the 270X or the 280 to help the CPU out, offloading processing onto the GPU for a smoother experience. This will be a big help in games like BF4 if you run the Athlon 860K. On the other hand, in games like the latest Wolfenstein title, you will find yourself wishing you owned the 970 or 980, because the 270X and 280 would still be the bottleneck there.

  • 63 months ago
  • 2 points

I am now completely sold on the Athlon. 860K here I come!

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

Now this is the kind of info you need to be looking at. Way to drop the knowledge!

  • 64 months ago
  • 4 points

hmm before you believe all this, look under completed builds and speak with bradonfontaine, a actual owner of this exact chip, and ask what he experienced with a jump from a 270x and 280 paired with this chip. me and him benchmarked some with my 4790k against his 860k. i agree its a great little chip and with mantle and dx12 off-loading to the gpu, it will do great for the money. no matter what, it will play every game.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

I'm well aware of what this chip can do I have the A10-7850k, big brother if you will, and it has served me well. I currently have it paired with an R9 270x and everything I throw at the combo @1080p is hitting 60fps+ even w/o Mantle active. Wish I would have gone with the 4GB version, but a sale is a sale. And its cool that yourself and bradon have opened up yourself to questions, but I wouldn't just take your experiences at face value either. There are a lot of reviews out there comparing different processors and gpu combos and its best to do your own research its just nice to see someone putting knowledge up instead of just giving an blatant opinion, though I do agree there is opinion in there. And since each chip is technically unique everyone's experience will be different with them. Lets face it there is no perfect manufacturing process out there today. All in all an article should make you think so you can make a well educated decision for yourself. So I'm with you on not believing everything you read.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

exactly. people fail to realize that when companies send reviewers product, they send them (most the time) better than your average product. and i believe some are paid off. i just don't like bar graphs. i can make one showing a 1 core processor beating everything. doesn't make it true. i like it when i can watch the test run. or at least a screenshot of the summary (like summary of heaven benchmark).

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

I'm very interested in the work you guys did welshdiesel. Can you give me a summary of the results? Everything I read on his 3 builds (all of which include the 860k) shows that by the time this chip bottlenecks, you're getting extremely fluid framerates anyway, and Unigine benchmarks were reported to show that there was still room for GPU improvement with this chip under GPU-heavy workloads when paired with an R9 280.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

not a problem. i thought it was weird that there are no real reviews of this chip and we both had a 270x. so we clocked each other the same, he clocked his 860k to 4.0, my factory clock 4790k, and ran some benchmarks.

i can absolutely tell you there are no real bottlenecks with a 270x. the most we separated was 7fps. i was impressed. now he got a 280 for a really good deal, and i got a 290 for a great deal. so now our exact findings arent exact. but from what he was benching compared to what 4790ks where running online, he was still no more than 10 fps. still great in my book. but he stated that it seemed to play sluggishly, which might be a bad(ish) card. im sure if you ask him he can give you greater detail. now im about finished testing my 290, seems like i got a good one (except overclocking- artifacts hard over 1100mhz but at 1100mhz im averaging in mid 70c temp). now once testing is completed, ill going to start benchmarking tests he has access too. once i finish that, and if there are still no good reviews on this cpu, im probably going to send him my card (only lives few states away) and let him bench it. that way we can have access to 100% unpersuaded, non-sponsered swayed results. because mainly everyone we have mentioned this to seems interested. so in the name of science, right?! lol sorry the summary ended up long.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

Thank you for your work on this, you and your friend both. I read your whole thing, so don't worry about being too long-winded. What I really want to know is the following data:

  1. What games did you test it on?
  2. What was the CPU usage per core, per title?
  3. What was the effect of Mantle, if used?
  4. What were the specific FPS rates reached?

The last one is especially important, because it's basically my point: if the 860K bottlenecks a 970 where an i7 wouldn't, but the 860K is getting 60fps average while the i7's getting 80fps, that matters a lot less than if the 860K's getting 25fps while the i7's getting 30fps, ya dig? The location of the bottleneck is sometimes a lot more important than the fact there's a bottleneck at all; there is ALWAYS a bottleneck, per se.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

yes there will be a bottleneck with that cpu paired with a 970. but depends of what types of games you play.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

Yea that was my concern since the GTX970 and GTX980 are way faster than the R9 290X.

If the CPU can't catch up even at OC mode, the Geforce GPU will be underpowered.

I was planning to play a lot of racing games and 60fps is a must at 1440P

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

i just want to rephrase to a small bottleneck. not a crippling bottleneck. and racing games, you will be fine

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

Wow thats a lot of really good discussion . But strangely the 860k is not being reviewed by most of the hardware sites. So we cant be sure what results we get when the 860k is paired with a high end gpu. Great writeup guys.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

I think you missed a bit of the point, the 860k is an A10-7850k w/o the iGPU, this means that anything that you find the 7850k running the 860k will run just as well give or take a few fps.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

Maybe similar but it seems the 860k runs at a lower voltage for the same speed as the A10. The APU seem to have heat problems when you run both iGPU and CPU together so thats why you see the cpu speed drops to 3GHz when the iGPU is being stressed. There might be a chance the 860k could OC closer to the 5GHz mark before the vrms and thermals reach the critical point.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

Maybe, but from what I've seen and done on the OCing on my 7850k anything past 4.5 wasn't really yielding substantial gains. Then again AMD even said that these chips weren't going to be the extreme like we seen with the 32nm FX-series. Would be cool to see though.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

maybe your APU was already hitting the thermal limit

the iGPU takes up to 60% of the total APU die and heat will spread to the CPU side.

you might need to crank up the fans to keep the heat under control.

65 degrees is the ceiling and the CPU speed will even fall back to 1.7GHz when pushed too hard.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

Nope, I have iGPU disabled due to running an R9 270x with it now so I'm not losing anything to that, plus I have H60 cooling it now, I haven't posted my update to my build yet. Look forward to that soon!

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

well after consideration,

I think i may opt for the Intel build but no GPU :/

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Type Item Price
CPU Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor $227.99 @ Amazon
CPU Cooler Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler $28.98 @ OutletPC
Motherboard Asus MAXIMUS VII FORMULA ATX LGA1150 Motherboard $306.98 @ SuperBiiz
Memory Mushkin Blackline 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory $68.99 @ Newegg
Storage Samsung 840 EVO 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive $99.99 @ Best Buy
Storage Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive $54.98 @ OutletPC
Case Cooler Master N600 Windowed ATX Mid Tower Case $59.99 @ Newegg
Power Supply EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply $49.99 @ Newegg
Total
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available $897.89
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-31 08:58 EDT-0400
  • 64 months ago
  • 0 points

there will be a bottleneck. If you want to be totally free of bottlenecks, I'd go for an i5 and a cheap H97 board.

Like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Type Item Price
CPU Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor $159.99 @ Micro Center
Motherboard ASRock H97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard $64.78 @ Newegg
Memory Team Vulcan 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-2133 Memory $70.99 @ Newegg
Storage Sandisk Ultra II 120GB 2.5" Solid State Drive $78.23 @ Amazon
Storage Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive $54.99 @ Amazon
Video Card MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card $349.99 @ NCIX US
Case Cooler Master N600 Windowed ATX Mid Tower Case $59.99 @ Newegg
Power Supply EVGA SuperNOVA NEX 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply $49.99 @ Newegg
Total
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available $888.95
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-10-29 08:17 EDT-0400
  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

where I live

your typical i5 and even the cheapest H97 board is 200 to 300 bucks more than the AMD system.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

what country?

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

Singapore

the typical cost of the i5 4690K and Z97 board will be more than half the budget of the PC

and the Geforce GTX980 ranges from 950 to 1k SGD

only the GTX970 is like 550+ SGD

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

What abouut cheaper versions of the i5. Can you get a 4430 and an H87, H81, or B85 board?

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

while the price of the older chipset series are lower

my idea of this build is for future upgrades in mind thus I may opt for the newer Z97 chipset and I do want to tinker with my PC quite a lot.

I may try to cut some corners on other areas but the CPU has to be OC able and paired with a powerful GPU

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

I do like your system

but sadly Intel systems are way more expensive than AMD

and sadly AMD FX is no longer for sale and only FM2+ socket mobo and CPU are only in my budget range if I need a decent CPU with a powerful GPU.

I may opt for the R9 290X which have their prices slashed but I am pretty much forced to go with the FM2+ platform

  • 64 months ago
  • 0 points

It isn't really worth buying a 290X then. A 285 or 280X is as high as you can really go without a huge bottleneck.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

yea guess i may have to scrap the FM2+ platform plan

I have to run my system without a GPU if I were to opt for the Intel route

or drop back on the GPU if i were to go for the FM2+

I already have a monitor that I am dead set in buying which is the Dell 27 Inch Ultrasharp with PremierColor that is 1440P IPS for photo editing.

  • 64 months ago
  • 1 point

at 1440p, most of the GPUs you listed will be a bottleneck LONG before the Athlon is in almost every application...

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